Saturday, June 14, 2008

Heresies Before Vatican II - June 15, 5th Sunday after Pentecost



Before we take a look at Vatican II with its inherent heresies, it is necessary to go back a bit further in history than the 1960's , even further back than the 1950's, when many claim that everything was well in the Catholic Church.

The fact of the matter that even then, many within the Church were denying and had lost the Catholic faith.

This is no more better demonstrated in the proliferation of false dogmas appearing in Catholic Catechisms back even as early as the late 1800's and other such Catholic publications in the early 1900's and culminating in the controversing involving Fr. Feeney, S.J. in the 1940's, and his public stand on the dogma, Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus - Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation.

Briefly, some examples to demonstrate what was actually happening:

The Catholic Encyclopedia, vol 3. " Church", 1908, G. H. Joyce: " the doctrine is summed up in the phrase Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus... it certainly does not mean that none can be saved except those who are in visible communion with the catholic the case in which God saves men apart from from the Church..."

[Imprimatur; John Farley + Archbishop of N.Y.] - HERESY

My Catholic Faith, a catechism written by the Bishop of Krishnager,Louis LaRavoire, 1949...

"Holy Mass may be offered for the living of whatever may be offered for departed Catholics. The priest may not offer Mass publicly for departed non- Catholics, but the persons hearing Mass may do so." [ Bishop denies all who depart this life as non- Catholis are lost - HERESY]

Baltimore Catechism No.3 ,1921 Q 510. Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the True Church? A. It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the true church..." -more HERESY [Imprimatured]

Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, by Ludwig Ott, Imprimatur 1954, p 310..."The necessity for belonging to the Church is not merely a necessity of precept, but also of means, as the comparison with the ark, the means of salvation from the biblical flood, plainly shows...In special the case of invincible ignorance...actual membership can be replaced by the desire for the same...In this manner also those who are in point of fact outside the Catholic Church can achieve salvation."

But, shortly after denying the dogma that no one can be saved outside the church, from one page to the next, Ludwig Ott contradicts himself on this dogma of the Catholic Church:

Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, p. 311; "It is the unanimous conviction of the Fathers that salvation cannot be achieved outside the church."

"But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no ; that which is over and above these, is of evil." (Mat. 5:37).

His speech is not of God, but of the Devil.



[ The Jesuit novice with parents]

Fr. Feeney was a priest of the Society of Jesus until, in 1949, he co-founded the religious order, Slaves of the Immaculate Heart of Mary (Mancipia Immaculata cordis Mariae), whose acronym is MICM

[ Fr. Feeney in late 1930's]

He was a defender of the unchangeable dogma of the Catholic Church. He fought against Americanism, Liberalism and Modernism, all rampant well before Vatican II Council (1962-1965). Early in his career he was referred to as "the greatest theologian in America" by his Jesuit peers.

[ The Feeney family. Left to right. Fr. Thomas Butler, Eileen,Mr & Mrs Feeney,John(later ordained a secular priest) and Fr. Feeney]

Fr. Feeney recognised that the root of the Church's inner problems and failure to convert America (and elsewhere throughout the world) was the result of a suppression of the thrice defined dogma that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation. he was soon after persecuted and villified by his own fellow Jesuits, by fellow churchmen, and by his superiors.

He was threatened and expelled from the Jesuit order, censored, threatened with excommunication and left out to hang with what is called a "dry martyrdom". Yet, he did not give in to the enormous pressure to "soften up" on what the Church has infallibly defined as necessary for salvation.


Letter from the Holy Office

On Aug 8, 1949 a Protocul letter came from the Supreme Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office. It censored Fr. Feeney and the St. Benedict Centre for teaching the dogma of no salvation outside the Church in the litteral sense (this is, of course, how all defined dogmas must be understood). This letter was signed by cardinal Marchetti- Selvaggiani and was identified as Protocul No. 122/49. it was formally defective in that it was never published in the Acta Apostolicae Sedis (Acts of the Apostolic See). It is this register alone which confers an official and binding character on a document. And even then, only so long as it meets the proper forms. Consequently, this letter is without any binding effect as an act of the Holy See or any type of official Church document. Its status, then, can only be that of the opinion of one bishop, expressed in a letter to another bishop.

[Francis Cardinal Marchetti Selvaggiani]

Fr. Feeney charged with disobedience

[Headlines from the Boston Globe at time of the silencing]

On Oct 25, 1952 Fr. Feeney was summoned to Rome for a hearing by Cardinal Pizzardo of the holy Office, without being given a reason why.

On Oct 30, 1952 Fr. Feeney responded by requesting a statement of the charges being made against him - as required by Canon Law 1715. A complaint of nullity was filed by Fr. Feeney allowed under Canon Law 1680. He received no response.

On, Nov 22, 1952 Fr. Feeney was threatened by Card. Pizzardo with an imposition of a canonical penalty, without stating the crime for which it is imposed. This is in violation of Cannon 2225. Canon 1959 forbids penalties without a trial.

On Dec 2, 1952 Fr. Feeney responded by asking with what he was being charged.

This was his right to do so under Canon Law 1715 Canon 1842 and 1843 require that the defendant be informed of charges and nature of proceedings to which he had been summoned.

On Jan 9, 1953 Fr. Feeney was the threatened with automatic excommunication, ipso facto

if he failed to report to Rome by a certain date. This letter also ignored Fr. Feeney's points concerning Canon Laws requirements.

He could not be excommunicated ipso facto because his action did not fall under the category of crimes meeting such a sentence


Decree of Excommunication

On Feb 13, 1953 a letter of excommunication was released, having no statement at all in it on doctrine, but had as its reason " grave disobedience of Church authority."

Though this letter was registered into the Acta, it is formally defective and thus invalid for the following reasons:

A. The letter lacked the seal of the Holy Office, and in fact bore no seal at all, and was only signed by a notary.

B. The letter lacked the signature of the judge of the tribunal which issued it, for validity

C. The decree was never properly communicated to the accused. it was first published in the newspapers.

D. Fr. Feeney's summons to Rome was uncanonical, therefore null and void.

E. There was never any canonical trial by a court concerning this case as proscribed by the disciplinary canons and decrees of the Council of Trent. therefore , according to Canon Law, no valid penalties could result.

F. Fr. Feeney sent a letter dated July 16, 1953, entering a "Complaint of Nullity" to the Holy father. It was never answered. Not only was Fr. Feeney not given a fair hearing, he was given no hearing at all, though required by Canon Law.


In 1972 Fr. Feeney was supposedly "reconciled" to the Church. If Fr. Feeney truly needed to be reconciled, he would have had to recant his position. Yet, he was never asked to do so. Anyone who has been truly excommunicated for heresy must withdraw what they once held and proclaim belief in orthodoxy.

Father Feeney was never asked to take back or repent from his teaching on "Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation."

Fr. Feeney was asked to profess one of the three Creeds of the Church. So he said the Athanasian Creed. This venerable creed ends with these solemn words:

Whoever wishes to be saved needs above all else to hold the Catholic Faith...unless each one preserves this whole and entire, he will without a doubt perish in eternity... this is the Catholic faith: unless everyone believes this faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.

Therefore, Fr. Feeney was not excommunicated for teaching outside the catholic Church no one can be saved. He couldn't be , because the Church has dogmatically defined this.

[ Archbishop Cushing before his election to the Sacred College of Cardinals]

Rather, Fr. Feeney was unjustly treated and persecuted by fellow churchmen in positions of authority who abused the authority of the offices they held and brought up uncanonical charges of disobedience to this priest of Christ's Church.

Did Fr. Feeney Predict the Loss of the Pope?
In the following passages from Fr. Feeney's book, Bread of Life - which is made up of Fr.Feeney's sermons before Vatican II - he connects the eventual loss of the pope ( what we have experienced with the reign of the Vatican II antipopes) to the denial of the dogma Outside the Church there is No Salvation. Fr. Feeney seemed to prophesy that it is because of this heresy that God will allow the Great Apostasy and the loss of the pope to come to pass.
Fr. Leonard Feeney,S.J. Bread of Life. pp. 32-33: "We have Protestants in an arrangement - religion that never knows what to call itself from one week to another, that never knows what its new minister to tell it from chapter to chapter of Holy Scripture. We have Unitarians who have no faith in the assured Jesus...we have Jews evading the Faith...pretending Christmas is not the birth of Jesus Christ, and getting civic leaders to remove ' Merry Christmas ' from in front of City Hall...All this, horrible as it is, I am prepared to cope with...
But imagine a priest in the Holy Roman Catholic Church, ordained by the successors of the Apostles- dedicated to the Name and purpose and Blood and robes of Jesus- sitting at Harvard College week after week and listening to religion being lectured about in invisible terms.. .
And imagine their going back, then, to their people and telling them about the ' soul of the Church', of 'salvation outside the Church through sincerity' - apart from the teachings and Sacraments of Jesus Christ; and calling this arrangement ' Baptism of Desire'- What kind of teaching is that? That is Christmas without the manger : Good Friday without any God bleeding; Easter Sunday without any Flesh and Blood coming out of the tomb. That is the Christian Faith without any Pope - the most visible religious leader in the World!"
[Fr. Feeney, writing the above passages before the Second Vatican Council, predicted the eventual loss of the pope because of the great number of heretics within the structures of the Church who denied the necessity of the Church for salvation . This is an amazing insight! ]-SOURCE UPDATE: Most Holy Family Monastery-
In summarizing, notice that back in 1846, Our Lady told the children of La Salette that'In the year 1864, Lucifer together with a large number of demons will be unloosed from Hell; they will put an end to faith little by little, even in those dedicated to God'; and so we see that this 'loss of faith' was well under way by 1964 and had actually commenced as early as 1864 as predicted by Our Lady at La Salette.


Chabz said...

wouldn't it seem all sensible that there is salvation outside the "visible boundaries" of the Church for souls as those who are/were:
1) Invincibly ignorant not by their own fault
2) Those who, in the first place, had not the chance of knowing about the Doctrine of Jesus Christ or where/when it was impossible to have known so.

This seems to be the most sensible interpretation of that dogma, Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, in the context in which Souls other than heretics, apostates and Catholics, could be saved.

To take the words "Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation" without actually understanding how these words apply differently to each person/people in their proper context, it would assume that anyone who was not a Catholic would be damned to hell including: (1) Unborn babies as it is impossible to baptise them (2) Unbaptised Children who died near or at birth (3) Young children who (not by their own fault) were not baptised into the Catholic faith and who have died(4) All non-Catholics who were never preached the Gospel due to Geographical Isolation from Christian Europe until western contact (i.e. the tribes of the Americas, peoples of the Pacific and Polynesian Islands, Australian Aborigines, majority of Asia before mainstream trade routes, and etc) (5) Those who due to mental disabilities were not able to properly learn the Catholic doctrine, thereby adhere to it (6) Those who were taught falsely of the Catholic Church and thereby deceived and lead away from becoming a Catholic (not due a fault of their own - to the exclusion of souls who should have known better and should have verified false claims) (7) Souls who did not become Catholic because their Superiors did not allow them or had restricted/exterminated all access to knowing the Catholic faith or practising it i. Children, wives and servants subjected to not believing in religion, or to remain in a false religion, by the head of their household (which would be the Father, Husband or Master) ii. Civil leaders who illegalized religion and Christianity making it impossible for people to know of the Catholic faith (such as people of Communist North Korea who have been completely isolated from any Christian contact).

I hope these real life scenarios, in which they are not limited to this number and type of circumstance alone, enlightens you on how simply ridiculous it would be to take the Dogma in question literally.

Remember, God is a rational God, and it would be irrational to damn these souls to hell in which it was not their fault that they were not able to know Christ and to become Catholic. In regards to actual heretics and apostates who die rejecting the Catholic Church, obviously they are doomed to hell.

Vatican II indeed may be responsible for leading much people into heresy, however, the proper interpretation of the 'Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus' under the authority of the Church, was well understood and preserved before Vatican II, such as Baltimore Catechism shows.

And please, its absurd to say that the Baltimore Catechism makes a heretical statement, because if you read what it says: "It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the true church" it is perfectly reasonable to assume and know that this is true and is not heresy. As why would God damn a soul to hell who did not know in the first place the true Church? If one does not know the true Church because of reasons that don't hold them culpable then of course it won't be their fault, therefore God will judge them justly, and accordingly.

Chabz said...

So in all, the Church has taught prior to Vatican II that there is no salvation outside the Church, therefore those who are saved outside the visible boundaries of the Church, were indeed saved within the invisible boundaries of the Church which comprises of that spiritual bond to God which was based upon a seeking of truth, a living of justice and holiness and so on, in the character of Christ, but without knowledge of Christ himself, as such was the situation of the souls prior to Christ's coming.

This is from what I understand, if you know anything additional concerning this issue, please don't hesitate to reply.

God bless.

catholic2007 said...

Hi Chabz,

Thank you for your comments on E.E.N.S....

I will endeavour to answer your points reflecting your misunderstanding of membership in the one true church, the One, Holy Roman Catholic Church, founded by Jesus Christ, as a requirement for salvation...for all men...

... but, I am going to have to keep you in suspense for a few days, as I am a bit busy at present ( tidying up the house) as I have relatives visiting in a couple of days know , vacuuming and stuff like that !

...also it will give me a bit more time checking stuff out, rather than rushing you off a 'half- baked' reply ...and not covering all your objections... until then ... au revoir


catholic2007 said...


This is my second attempt to compose and post a reply to your comments, as my work of several hours disappeared somewhere into cyberspace when the blogsite froze, yesterday... 8-[

So at the risk of it doing something similar I will keep it brief and perhaps it would be a good idea if you got hold of Bro. Peter Dimond's excellent research contained in his book "Outside the Catholic Church There Is No

Briefly, once the Church has defined something on faith or morals there is no chance of it being reinterpreted or changed with the passage of time...

...Pope's do not make new doctrine but only declare solemnly without erring, as true that which was always true since the death of the last Apostle. That is, Divine Revelation ended with the death of the last Apostle.

The Church is always visible, even if , as is the case today, it is reduced to a handful, the remnant who hold the full deposit of faith, uncompromisingly.

For membership in the Catholic church Baptism is the only way, and that water is necessary...those who were saved before Christ instituted the Sacrament of Baptism after the Resurrection were saved under the Old Law, which includes the Holy Innocents and the Good Thief...

The gospel was preached to all parts of the world outside the Roman Empire even in the times of the Apostles...

Invincible Ignorance is heresy, and has been condemned by various popes...

Unborn infants/ aborted children/ persons who die before the use of reason for whatever cause, who die before being baptized go to Hell, that part of which, where there is no fire, and is called the limbo of the children...

All your other difficulties are discussed in the book, and more besides,by Bro. Peter excellent treatise, I might add!

So, in conclusion, to reiterate, the dogma "Outside the Catholic Church There Is No Salvation", means what it says, and says what it means.

...there is no other interpretation...

catholic2007 said...

... erratum....

..."Outside The Catholic Church There Is Absolutely No Salvation"...second edition , Brother Peter Dimond...